You cannot MAKE any woman feel sexually attracted to you! Attraction is something YOU CANNOT CREATE, because it depends on your genes. And your genes are reflected in your face shape, scent, tone of voice… Nature tells us what is attractive for us, and what is not. You can give yourself a little leg up on the competition by improving your self-confidence, financial status or staying fit, but it won’t make you attractive in the eyes of women who fall for other “types”.
Many seduction fans will argue “but I’ve seen seduction taking place many times.” They should calm down their enthusiasm for a moment, forget about the ideology of the Don Juan Party, and think back what they really saw.
There are two possibilities:
1) they saw a man successfully picking up a woman who already from the very beginning has considered him sexually attractive. But hey! Why did they use the word “seduce” if she liked him from the beginning? He could simply say “Hi, I’m John” instead of some lousy line inspired by a seduction tutorial. The problem is most guys cannot comprehend that an objectively unattractive man can be physically attractive in the eyes of one particular woman,
or
2) they saw a man having a nice interesting conversation with a woman, and on the basis of this fact they reasoned that he “seduced” her. In reality she was merely a nice girl who was approached by an interesting guy, but she felt absolutely no sexual attraction. YouTube is full of this kind of fake pick-ups. The fact that a girl had an interesting convo with someone does not mean she was “seduced”. What would you do in her place? Would you scream “go away you freak!”, after a guy approached you with an unusual line? I admit that some of these street pick-up videos show some pretty original approaches. So the girl might have been honestly interested. However, if she doesn’t show genuine signs of romantic interest, then this is not a pick-up. These signs could include meeting up for a date. The best would be making out with that guy. The point is that the most original, intelligent or funny approach cannot fix the lack of initial attraction. In such case the best you can achieve is friendship.
The problem is (and the PUAs know how benefit from it) that it is tough to verify it, unless you follow the guy and the girl from example 2 and find out she has never answered any of his calls or unless you ask the girl form example 1, and she frankly admits she had considered the guy attractive even before he approached her with his cheesy pick-up line or ridiculous NLP pattern. He just had to “close the deal” that was already on.
When the playas reveal their methods and ask the girl for some honest comments, they often engage in some sort of pseudoscientific chit chat. PUAs usually use vague words that women like so much. When women hear such mumbo jumbo, they feel that saying “I just thought he looked cute” would be almost inappropriate. The PUA’s students after watching the whole thing, and the “frank” explanation of the approached girl (implied by the PUA’s suggestive questions) come to the conclusion that they witnessed the miracle of seduction: a common man conquered a true vixen.
The majority of men can’t handle the fact that women have their “types” concerning facial appearance. For us men the issue is very simple: a girl is either hot or she is not. Guys even rate girls on 1-10 “finger scales”, there are no “types” in men lingo. We automatically assume women view masculine beauty in the same way as we view feminine.
What about those of us who can say seduction worked for US, not what we saw other people doing?
Three years ago, I split up with my ex-girlfriend. For 21 months after this, I chased after many women but at the time my confidence was low and my self-esteem was low (I was actually going through therapy at the time)…. my results were awful. In that entire 21 months period, I slept with ONE girl…. and she was pretty ugly. This wasn’t for want of trying.
Then I read The Game and started learning about/practicing the techniques I had learned. In the 15 months since then….. I have slept with 4 different women (all far more attractive than the 1 girl in 21 months), I have kissed or more (i.e. anything from kissed up to oral sex) around 8 or 9 other women, including 2 models.
I am a slightly overweight ginger guy with a big nose. Brad Pitt I aint.
I look no better or worse than I did when I was having no success at all (if anything, I have put on weight and I have aged) yet my success levels are incredible in comparison. Why??
There is another GLARING hole in your argument. I have been around girls before who have shown no signs – either verbally or through physical body language – of sexual interest in me, who hours later have ended up in bed with me. If your theory stacked up, then these girls would either be sexually attracted to me instantly or not at all (instantly).
Yet, girls who had shown me extremely cold and unfriendly body language initially and ZERO signs of sexual attraction were later on attracted to me enough to go to bed with me.
What about those of us who can say seduction worked for US, not what we saw other people doing?
Apparently you didn’t read section “Do Yourself a Favor”
Yet, girls who had shown me extremely cold and unfriendly body language initially and ZERO signs of sexual attraction were later on attracted to me enough to go to bed with me.
Sorry dude, but that’s just YOUR IMPRESSION (you would have to measure their pulse, skin reaction etc. to be sure they were not attracted to you). You present an anecdote to defend some ideas that ought to be proved during a fair scientific test, don’t you think it is about time someone tested it on A STATISTICALLY RELEVANT sample? Why you guys only come up with anecdotes? Why you ignore the lack of any evidence although it is very easy to obtain them (section “The Experiment”)
You dont create an attraction. Every woman is potentially attracted to you if you play your cards right and that’s what PUAs do.
that’s an innovative concept … too bad it’s totally irrational
The idea that “every woman is potentially attracted to you” is even more absurd than the idea of “creating” attraction, if you consider what evo-psych has revealed about human mating so far. Can you quote any study confirming it? I on the other hand can list hundreds of studies showing women have their preferences, and those preferences boil down to things you are born with, so you can’t possibly “play your cards right”.
Furthermore, IF that was true, it rationally means that the PUAs who “play their cards right” could be able to get into the pants of literally every single woman – now read ending of section “BS Created So Far” that includes real life success rates of those players…
@ed – here is a short youtube video of PUA gurus (these guys actually teach PUA boot camps and must be better than just the regular “gamers”) “gaming” a reporter;
http://www.seductionmyth.com/just_prove_it/fake-pick-ups/
You mention that PUA’s play their cards right – I guess these PUA’s are playing the “Joker” card.
The first PUA opens the reporter with…..a fake snake! LOL
BTW, you can tell this reporter doesn’t find any of these guys attractive – there’s nothing they can do to get her because she is out of their league.
So much for your theory.
…..Here is the link from the youtube site;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPlB71q9SwA
I still stand by the belief that girls fall for bad boys and ultra confident men. It happened to me many times that hotter chicks approached me ,when I acted really obnoxious and loud. The more self-centered you are ,the more attractive your are ,but it fucks up your relations with others. I also think that truly ugly and deformed men have almost 0% chance.
But if you approached them acting like a nice guy, you wouldn’t get rejected either. So my answer is that by acting “loud” you simply created more chances to make the first contact. It’s not acting “loud” per se that worked, and for sure not acting “obnoxious” per se…
@Michaal – good looking people are socialized differently than average or below average looking people.
They will be picked first for events in school and invited to all the parties – thus, they become self centered and confident.
Good looking people can get away with jerk behavoir and are inherently ultra confident simply because society values good looks (ie. confidence comes from being good looking).
However, good looking people are inherently attractive because they are “good looking” – the jerk, self centered behavoir is just “along for the ride” so to speak.
The manipulators in the seduction community market that it is the bad boy or bitch behavoir (for a woman) that attracts the opposite sex (ie. since the seduction community rejects that a guy’s looks are a factor for attracting women).
The seduction community can’t teach an average looking or ugly guy how to be good looking but they can sell him a “Cocky Comedy” 8 DVD set that promotes jerk behavoir.
As Admin mentions, your “loud” behavoir caught a woman’s attention who found you “her type” and thus she was attracted to your looks (ie. despite your pathetic/immature attempt to be an attention-whoring “bad boy”).
I agree that truly ugly people have a harder chance at meeting the HB10 but maybe they can meet an HB1 who would find them attractive – that is why it is good to go for IOI’s (Indicators of Interest) and then go for the woman who find you “their type”.
I would forget about becoming the “bad boy” – LOL My gym is full of these types of guys who you can tell are just trying so very hard to be something they are not (but I guess the tatoo parlours are very happy with all these dudes trying to get an “edge”).
what about those guys that girls dismissed at first but fell for them later on? how did they create attraction?
I often hear this argument, but it doesn’t prove attraction can be “created” (such reasoning is a non sequitur).
who was also “her type”.
That’s when secondary factors come into play. For instance:
Jenny met Mike, and she felt this guy is “her type”. BUT at that moment in her life she wasn’t looking for any serious relationship, coz she just broke up with her long time boyfriend. So she chose Pete (because of his bigger muscles for instance
After fooling around with Pete for a couple of weeks, she felt she is ready to get into something serious, so she gave Mike a chance – Pete was a brainless muscle boy, while Mike had the winning personality etc.
Although this is too old, but I just want to comment on this. In my own experience and from that of listening to female friends telling me similar stories, it has been a scenario like the ones I list below:
- For whatever reason, she was just not in the mood in that particular moment – for example, she is having an important phone conversation, or thinking about something serious or whatever reason, was just not in the moment. I call this auto-rejection. This is where no matter who would have approached her, nothing would have happened. I myself have been in this scenario once where I approached a girl at the beginning of the night, and she just completely rejected me in like less than a second. A little later, I approached her again and things went very far with her then.
- The girl liked the guy right from the beginning but was playing various stupid shitty games where she wanted the guy to chase her.
- Some circumstance changed in her life where now suddenly she is open to considering that guy or guys in general in her life. In fact, usually in the story where a guy chases the girl forever, and one fine day she become his girlfriend, this is usually what happens. I’ll give an example of a female friend. She was subconsciously hung up on her ex-bf. Although verbally she kept on saying how she never meets a good guy, but really she was rejecting every dude who she met. One day, the ex-bf posts on facebook that he is dating some chick and lo and behold, she starts dating a dude who has been chasing her like mad for past few months. Now I am sure if you asked the guy, he would say it’s because of the special date he took her on that changed her mind.
@ Johnny – you made the following excellent point;
“For whatever reason, she was just not in the mood in that particular moment – for example, she is having an important phone conversation, or thinking about something serious or whatever reason, was just not in the moment. I call this auto-rejection”
I understand your point loud and clear – in fact, the default setting for women is to be in auto-rejection mode (especially true for hot women).
That being said, seduction community clowns will never get your point!!!!
You see, one of the dogmas of the seduction commununity (maybe the second main dogma before the #1 dogma that a guy’s looks don’t matter as an influence to sexually atttracting women) is that woman are always open to being being approached by a man.
Yep – even if a woman is wearing a baseball cap over her eyes, dark glasses and headphones plus looking pissed off – she really is open to being approached. No really.
Even if a woman is at a funnereal and crying, you can still approach her – just do some “cocky comedy” to break her state!
The seduction gurus PUMMEL this “airy-fairy” thinking in men that women are always fantazing about being approached by their sauve “knight in shinning armor” (in the case of the seduction community pundit, it will be a guy wearing a fur hat with aviator goggles projecting his voice at 110 dBSPL doing an improv “cocky comedy” routine).
Another thing, for these seduction community clowns, the only thing that matters to them is gaming women – that is their focus of their life – thus, they cannot perceive in their (manipulated) minds that perhaps a woman at a drug store is indeed really looking for tampons or even dirreah medicine vs wanting to be approached by some chump who does not understand social norms (I guess this chump probably read the Blue Print by Tyler Durden of RSD who tends to live in his mind vs realizing their is a real world outside of his head).
I recall reading a few years ago when Tyler Durden of RSD was learning seduction that he went out 7 days a week for 12 hours (or something rediculous amount of time like that) to “game” women – so, for seduction community “gamers” who think gaming women is EVERYTHING, they will not comprehend that normal people have other interests in life and other things important to them besides meeting someone (in fact, the color of the toilet paper that a hot woman is buying at the supermarket is more likely more important in her mind that the “gamer” that is approaching her).
A better example for this blog would have been
a- where is in the consistent “in the nightclub” video evidence of PUAs hitting on and seducing women?
Most idiots who follow PUA more than likely don’t know what the inside of a Nightclub looks like- so therefore cannot see through the bullshit concepts of “PUA” or the fact that Tyler RSD, Strauss or Mystery would get shot down in a milli-second in 90% of Nightclubs.
b- why don’t the “professional” “MPUAs” demonstrate on their Bootcamps for daygame* (*with the exception of staged with actresses or carefully edited videos where the women didn’t clear of within minutes).
See these YouTube video of an amatuer PUA’s- that is the reality of day game approaches
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZ55_qaDKPE
As for daygame- I saw Adam Lyons infield for real and he was shockingly bad. He couldn’t hook a single set let alone anything else despite claims he can number close 90% of sets he had a 100% failure rate when I trained with him!
Ironically I DID number close and will possibly do my own blog on how I did it.
c- most one night stands are arranged between 3 or more people doing recommendations. A “top secret” knowledge of mine is this
1- cold approaching doesn’t work
2- most one night stands are arranged via social circles/networking prior to social events but APPEAR to have been done on the night when the prospect fuck buddies finally meet face to face.
3- its all about Looks with Money following a close second followed by status
I agree Phoenix.
The vast majority of videos showing “club game” in fact show PUAs walking around trying to talk to some chicks. Or rather making casual remarks, trying to act cool. Like Mystery in one video I saw on YouTube asked out loud why everyone is wearing white. Girls standing next to him replied “Coz it’s a all white party”. Mystery explained he was talking to himself or smth like that, and the girls went like “Oh OK”.
Incredible! The guy managed to exchange a few words with the opposite sex! Now I understand why he is considered the pickup expert hotshot shiznnit! A casual convo nothing more on that video. But if you read the comments under the video you will find out a lot of people consider these two sentences as a sign of sexual interest LOL
I already see the excited PUA crowd thinking “Genius! He got them! wow! I bet they were having sex that night”
There is no prove of any “seduction” taking place. All the more considering the fact that we never now how many approaches the guy did that night. So even if we see some genuine attraction going on, it still doesn’t prove anything about seduction techniques per se.
You know I could continue raising such doubts for hours. For instance why no PUA is married or in a relationship with any famous model or actress?? I mean if only skills matter, then those most skilled players (like DeAngelo, Mystery, Adam Lyons and other famous douchebags) should be able to get virtually any woman. So why not date some attractive girl who also happens to be very rich? How convenient would that be? Oh I forgot Neil Strauss claims he “seduced” Britney Spears hahahahah
@Admin – you said;
” I mean if only skills matter, then those most skilled players (like DeAngelo, Mystery, Adam Lyons and other famous douchebags) should be able to get virtually any woman. So why not date some attractive girl who also happens to be very rich? How convenient would that be? Oh I forgot Neil Strauss claims he “seduced” Britney Spears hahahahah”
I leave as an exercise for guys to use the Internet to find pictures of David DeAngelo’s wife and Tyler Durden’s current girlfriend to come to their own conclusions whether these “master PUA’s” can pull any woman they want or are they merely just getting the women that find them “their type” (ie. they are limited by their looks to only get the narrow category of women that would find them physically attractive).
You would think it would great for business if these “master PUA’s” could get a hot looking actress like Jessica Alba as a wife or girlfriend!!
I see my AFC friends and even myself doing much better than these “master PUA’s as far as getting attractive women (reference Jessica Alba, Emma Watson, Joanna Krupa, Anna Kornikova, Anna Sharapova, Kate Upton, etc. as what I consider hot).
On another note, I recently seen an article on Yahoo about PUAHate…..when an anti PUA group makes the news on a major news site you know the end is quite near for the seduction community.
The seduction community is as mainstream as Justin Beiber’s music and just as uncool.
Soon using any seduction material in a nightclub will be as uncool as walking around with big headphones listening to Justin Beiber and Lady Kaka.
Hey guys – here is that news article on Yahoo news regarding the anti-PUA movement I mentioned in the post above;
http://ca.shine.yahoo.com/blogs/shine-on/men-paid-pick-artist-services-lash-against-unfilfilled-140536675.html
Interesting reading some of the comments below the main article with many of them mentioning what I already noticed several years ago – the seduction community is so mainstream!!!
In fact, here is a tactic to use next time some PUA “clown” cuts in on you if you are talking to a woman (lets say at a party or night club) – what ever the guy says, just say something like this “you read that on the Internet – you are one of those clowns that study seduction”.
I have used this a few times and so far no guy has ever recovered from this because to study seduction is to admit you are a loser (especially these days where EVERYONE and their grandmas know about it). LOL
Mike, I wanted to mention DeAngelo’s wedding photos in my above post. But than I thought it would be low blow
Also take a look at Mystery’s girlfriend (or ex-girlfriend) and Amanda Lyons photos (wife of Adam Lyons). They don’t look bad, but it is difficult not to see the striking facial similarities between them and their partners… Neil Strauss can supposedly seduce Britney Spears of Jessica Alba, but he ended up with Lisa Leveridge. She also doesn’t look that bad, but in comparison to Alba…
Yep seduction is considered very lame. Doing PUA routines in a night club can easily backfire. A lot of girls are aware about this community of weirdos….
@admin – you saidl
“Mike, I wanted to mention DeAngelo’s wedding photos in my above post. But than I thought it would be low blow
Also take a look at Mystery’s girlfriend (or ex-girlfriend) and Amanda Lyons photos (wife of Adam Lyons).”
When I see Mystery’s girlfriend and compare her to let’s say DeAngelo’s wife, you can see that Mystery can pull the “hotter” woman (ie. reference to what most men out in the world tend to think is hot).
The reason is that Mystery is able to pull what a 6’5″ famous magician with above average looks (despite him dressing/acting like a homosexual) can pull vs what DeAngelo with his very wierd, average looks can pull.
It comes down to Mystery’s looks and DeAngelo’s looks determining the “hottness” of the woman they can get – they have no choice and their “seduction” skills have nothing to do with it.
Then there is Tyler Durden with his below average looks and his current girl friend is definately not attractive to me or any kind of prize – that being said, he is just pulling what his limited looks can get him and that is just a plain woman that most AFC guys would not want to date.
I am surprised that the seduction community calls someone like TD a “master PUA” when most AFC guys can pull better looking women without even trying.
Kate Upton is the new “hot” woman in town – she should be with someone from the seduction community if seduction works (I mean why wouldn’t these gurus for the the “holy grail” of babes just to prove seduction works – this would be a GREAT BUSINESS move).
Agreed.
I bet those seduction clowns would reply to our arguments with some kind of lame excuse like:
“Well, seduction doesn’t enable you to get ANY woman. It’s just 2 points hotter than you would normally date”
Seriously, I read such excuse on some seduction dedicated website. Of course no proof whatsoever from him. The guy didn’t explain how he established that it is 2 points more and not for ex. 3,5 points. Most importantly he didn’t present any evidence for this claim.